An interchange on electoral strategy for progressives. The problem of self-defeating left-wing delusions about politics.

Richard Curtis, Seattle offered the following comment, beginning a typical radical left-wing strategy for American Politics, beginning the following interchange on Bernie Sanders’ campaign.

As you may have heard Bernie Sanders is prepared to announce his candidacy for president tomorrow.  He is evidently going to run as a Democrat and obviously if he were to get the nomination would radically change American politics.  That seems unlikely but what is possible is his running as an Independent on a groundswell of support gathered during the primary.  If he gets sufficient support he will be motivated to try the independent route, and if polls in Europe are any guide, voters are getting fed up with established parties.  This could be a historic moment.

Sanders is not perfect but we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  He is much better on almost every issue than any other candidate or possible candidate with any possibility of going anywhere.

This may be a historic moment where electoral politics shifts.  Sanders needs as much support as can be given.  America needs this.

My reply:

I am excited about Bernie’s running in the Democratic Primary. But I am glad that he will never pull a Ralph Nader, and run as an independent. Nader’s destructive action in 2000 has already cost us greatly, not the least of which has been the destructive decisions of the current Supreme Court. If you want to build a third party — and the WFP is already effectively doing that, and other might well try — you have to build real power at the local and state levels. Let us not be self-destructive leftist — enough damage has already been caused by such behavior.

Richard responds:

David, that makes absolutely no sense.

We are in the position we are in now because so many people were too cowardly to vote for Nader when they should have.  It is lesser evil thinking in elections that has allowed the Democratic Leadership Council to take over the Democratic Party and to move it farther and farther to the right.  To suggest that Nader was wrong or that Sanders ought not run as an independent when the times comes is simply laughable.  That thinking shows complete Ignorant of current political reality and the history that produced it.  Ever since I was old enough to vote alleged progressives have said we have to support Democrats and all that has produced is a Democratic Party that is now to the right of the Republican Party of 30 years ago.

If the last presidency has not taught us the folly of lesser evil politics I don’t know what would.  Establishment Democrats support TPP and drones — drones killing US citizens without trial we should note.  And you want us to vote for them?  Are you insane?

The only hope for the world is for Sanders to become an independent on a wave of progressive Democratic support and win as a result of Americans acting like actually informed people (like Greeks) and vote out the establishment.

Richard C

My next reply:

Saying that the only problem is that enough people didn’t vote for Nader is about as practical as saying the only problem in the world is that enough people don’t follow Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount. Wishing a reality doesn’t make it so. The reason the Dems are further to the Right than 30 years ago is because the Right HAS ORGANIZED and built an effective base and public campaign that changed the dynamics of our society. You want a short cut, instead of doing the hard on the ground organizing that can really make a difference — and that the Working Families Party is now doing in at least 6 states. We would not have had a DiBlasio administration in NYC and a very progressive Citiy Council — or two very progressive statewide officers (NOT including the Governor) — if it wasn’t for that grassroots, detailed effort. Contributing to the victory of a far Right Republican in the name of ideological purity would be worse than self-defeating. Stop waving an intellectual wand, and build an effective progressive alternative from the bottom up. That’s what Bernie wants to do — there is NO WAY he will run as an independent — and so does Elizabeth Warren. These are our best hopes at present — long with a few others at the national level, and many more locally and in the media.

Richard Curtis’s 2^nd response:

To suggest that Nader was wrong or that Sanders ought not run as an independent when the times comes is simply laughable.  That thinking shows complete Ignorant of current political reality and the history that produced it.  Ever since I was old enough to vote alleged progressives have said we have to support Democrats and all that has produced is a Democratic Party that is now to the right of the Republican Party of 30 years ago.

And then,

Paul Zarembka added:

I agree with you, Richard.  Further, Gore did not lose.  Even if he did, it would be GORE’s fault.  I actually remember that Gore told Nader that it was his, Gore’s fault, not Nader’s.  Gore shows more respect for Nader than the person to whom you are responding.

More fundamentally, lesser of evil’s politics, gets us deeper into evil politics.

To which I replied:

More pathological wish fulfillment and inability to actually confront the world we face.

If this self-destructive Left-wing fringe ideological was not so impotent and politically marginal, an intelligent wealthy Right-wing funder would do well to fund them in order to split and further undermine any effective progressive alternatives. But that is clearly not necessary, as these “radical” Leftist (as opposed to significant radical Leftists such as Syriza in Greece or Podemos in Spain, who are actually seeking to build effective political power and confront the power of the international corporate establishment — and confronting the real challenges of actually doing so) have completely self-marginalized themselves. Though the experience of Ralph Nader in 2000, in part supported covertly by Republicans,  show how dangerous they can become as a tool of the Right. That’s why they need to be confronted.